Messaging in Regulated Industries Means Taming Complexity

There are a number of markets that a business may serve, or operate in, where regulations can impact the way you shape the story you bring to market, even as specific as the words used. Examples: Healthcare, insurance, financial services, even legal services. In this episode of Troupe's podcast SAID DIFFERENTLY, we hear from product marketing leader Hannah Pickering of HealthEquity as she talks about how she meets the challenges to build an effective messaging plan and to keep that on track amidst the explosion of AI-generated content.

Key moments from the conversation:

3:23 = Bringing a message to market in a regulated industry. Specific examples of cases she has encountered and what she had to adjust and keep in mind when making messaging choices for the story. 

9:25 = The differences in getting a solid messaging framework in place in a B2B2C go-to-market motion. First, there are more guardrails to abide by. Second, there are more stakeholders involved in the process including compliance, legal, and in certain industries clinical or scientific teams. Third, the process must bring in the right input at the right time.

12:30 = Question the wording and be the “interpreter”: Nuance around language and the meaning of words. How not to get overly complicated and confuse your potential audience yet not select words that don’t work in the context of your market.

14:46 = Managing the explosion of AI-generated content: How has this changed the approach of monitoring content “in the wild” and why this keeps her up at night. Bringing people into the messaging process so they are more likely to use it with consistency and adherence. No more “my messaging vs. your messaging.”

19:18 = Activating a feedback loop with your team, so you can iterate the messaging to continue to improve it and react to changes in the market, buyers, and competitive moves. How Troupe is a solution that can help with the measurement of messaging.

22:51 = In a B2B2C situation, how do you think about the hierarchy of message, so you are striking the right balance in the buyer’s lens vs. the end-consumer’s lens? She looks for what’s universally important to both, while also still developing messaging for both groups.
27:13 = Having more personas to understand when in a B2B2C environment also requires you to think about the offering more on “human-focused” terms. 

Learn more about how Troupe helps companies keep track of how aligned their messages in interactions and content are with what they should be saying: https://www.troupe.ai/use-cases

Said Differently is sponsored by Troupe, the AI hub for messaging success. You can watch the video versions of these podcasts on our YouTube playlist.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hi, everybody. Welcome to this episode of Said Differently. This is your show about bringing your company's story to market through messaging focused on B2B. And I am your host, Jennifer Socora. The show is sponsored by Troop. We have today as our guest Hannah Pickering, who is a fantastic product marketer. Troop met recently. I say recently, but whenever you listen to this, who knows when that will be. But we met her at the New York City Product Marketing Alliance Summit, and she's an ambassador for them, and she has a long history as a product marketer. Got her start as a journalist. So we kind of bonded over that. But Hannah, why don't you introduce yourself a bit more and what you're up to right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Jennifer. And hello to the audience watching this at any point in time in the future. Like Jennifer said, I did not start out in product marketing, much like many of my product marketing peers. I really am a journalist turned marketer. I didn't know in the beginning what exactly I wanted to do, but I knew what my why was elevating stories that matter, making people really stop and pay attention to a story and really feel something and do something as a result. Along the way, I pivoted from journalism to marketing. I found my groove in content and growth marketing. I really became a T-shaped marketer and wore a lot of different hats, which was fun. But what stayed consistent through all of that was using story. And I like to think of it as the art of persuasion to get people to take notice of something and to understand something better. I turned to product marketing because I really wanted to spend more of my day today helping people understand and use really amazing products and really finding the bridge there. Along the way, I discovered that I was also equally passionate about helping people building the product get to understand their customers in new and different ways, not just as buyers or users of the product, but really as humans. And that's really helped because along the way, I've had the opportunity to work in organizations that are tackling really big, meaningful problems that impact the lives of millions of people, ourselves included. So everything from helping people build financial security to accessing affordable health care, being part of that bigger mission gives me and my work a sense of purpose, which is incredibly fulfilling. It also means you approach things like messaging differently, which I know we're going to talk about today. Um, I'm actually starting a new role. Well, it will not be new anymore when you all listen to this. Um, actually coming back to a company that I was at before that I'm really excited about. It's a company called Health Equity. Um, so they may come up in the conversation as director of product marketing. So coming back to a team I was once on to really help scale it and take it to the next level.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Oh, well, that's great. I am excited for your next opportunity, Hannah. And uh yeah, the topic, as you kind of hinted at today, is really um around, you know, how we bring our messages to market in really regulated industries. And there's a lot of complexity around that, not just in terms of all the different sort of language compliance things that you need to think about, but there's also persona level complexity, right? It's not just B2B, it's very, very often in these industries B2B to C. And so there's an extension of those personas, and we're gonna touch on that as well. I've only had a very brief stint in my storied career of working in a regulated B2B to C environment. I was with a telehealth uh platform that helped company uh people connect with dermatologists online to do asynchronous visits. It's called dermatologist on call. It's still around. Um, and I remember for the first time having to face all of these different sort of, as a marketer, you kind of had to think about the specific wording choices that you used, but you also were thinking about not just marketing to the providers that we were trying to get into our network, but thinking about it for those from the perspective of the end consumer as well. So I know you have been spending a lot of time there, and you know, so a lot of markets fall into this, like healthcare, insurance, financial services, even legal services, real estate. So I guess for those who haven't been in those types of industries, can you give like one or two like really specific examples of a message or messaging challenge that might hit up against that sort of regulatory, you know, issue?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Absolutely. Um there's I was thinking about this, and there's actually a lot of examples I had. There's one that is top of mind that I'll actually share too. Um, the first was a situation where I was launching, I was a PMM behind the launch of a new brokerage account product. Um so essentially giving people that are investing another way to invest. And if you ever invested through a brokerage account, it's basically that front door that's gonna allow you to access stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETFs, all different types of investment vehicles to hopefully grow and build more wealth. One of the ideas, so one of the ideas behind that offering was hey, we want to give people more choice, more flexibility and opportunities. Um, but it also opens the door to greater opportunity to grow how much you have invested. When I started working on the messaging for that product, though, there was a lot of back and forth on how we talked about the benefits of the offering without making a promise, either articulated explicitly or not, that hey, if you invest through this brokerage account, you have the opportunity to potentially see positive growth in your balance. Um, if you work for a company in the financial space, you really can never make a promise to your end customer that by doing X, your balance is going to grow immediately from 10 to 15. Um, especially when it comes to investing, there's a lot of volatility. You know, you never know if you put your money in a fund and that the fund value goes down. So a lot of back and forth with our compliance and legal teams on what are the benefits we can articulate in our messaging that we can stand behind that we feel comfortable making, um, that won't put us or our customer sort of in an awkward position where we promised something that was not delivered. Right. So, what we ended up doing was leaning more into the independence and the choice you'd get as an investor because you had access to more ways to invest with your money. And so it was really the benefit there was more around the flexibility, which actually really appealed to the type of customer who wanted to use the brokerage account. They weren't someone who was like, you tell me what to do and invested for me. They were telling us we want to decide. We are, we love this, we spend kind of time researching the types of funds we want to pick. They wanted more of that choice and control rather than sort of having it on autopilot. And so that was the benefits we ended up leaning into in our messaging, which was very effective with that audience.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

It was something that was true factually, it did provide that. It was something that wouldn't put us in a position where someone could claim that we were misleading in the promise that we made to the customer. So that's like one very concrete example where you have to be really thoughtful in your messaging about what are we saying or what are we implying? What could be kind of taken away from interpretation? And how do we make sure that it's not the wrong interpretation that we want to get to our customer?

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Right. Yeah, and that's a really great example because you're you're focused on different types of benefits in that case, not specifically the outcomes, right? And often when you're just strictly B2B, you are focused on promoting the outcomes, right, that they can expect to achieve. But there's a lot of nuance here in a regulated industry. I remember at the telehealth company where I worked, we would sell to other dermatology practices, but the end user used our platform to engage with all the practices in our network. And we had to be really careful about language around, like, you know, we're gonna cure you or we're gonna, you know, guarantee treatment or anything like that. Like there were lots of issues there. And then, of course, there were HIPAA considerations because it was health care. But the thing is, like, we had to also mirror that language when we marketed to the providers, right? We were trying to bring providers in. And we had to give the providers content and language that they could also use and be in compliance with when they promoted it to their patients. So there was this sort of trickle-down effect, right? Like that it's and so you're you've, you know, that may be one of the things that are is different. So, what are some of the other differences as you've moved into B2B to C? What are some of the differences you see in getting those things accomplished? You hinted it a little bit in your example of the brokerage, but in a B2B to C motion, what's different about the process that to stay in compliance? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

There are there are a few things. Um, and and as we talk about it, think about these as guardrails and not as constraints. I know you and I chatted a little bit about that. I'm a big believer that these guardrails are there for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

So companies don't do wrong things and customers are getting the right thing by them. And so that's my kind of point of reference as we're thinking about this. So when it comes to how the process is different, um, A, there are more stakeholders involved, most likely.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

That has to be frustrating sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

There has yes, pros and cons, push and pull. Um, hopefully you're building a good relationship with those stakeholders, and that helps when you are having a little bit of a tug and war over the language that you're using in your messaging. In addition to the usual kind of culprits you're probably working with, you're likely working with compliance, you're working with legal teams. Yeah, um, you may be working with the chief medical officer, other folks who are on the clinical side. And so there are different points of view around messaging. And especially when I've worked with compliance and legal folks, A, like I do not want their job. I think it's incredibly tricky. They're always having to think of all the angles. Yeah. Um, but oftentimes they may look at messaging in a very black and white way. Like, if we say this, we say this. We can say this, we can't say this. And as a marketer, you're probably a little bit more creative. You're you want to take a little bit more creative liberties. Hey, we really want to use this phrase. It's powerful, we think it's going to stick out. Your legal team could say, no, we are very concerned about you using that phrase. And so you have more people who have a say in your messaging. And so there is more of that balancing act where you're trying to bring in their inputs. Their inputs are incredibly important. Um, sometimes, if I think if you really believe in something, like maybe there's a little bit of pushback. Well, we really want to say this. So, how can we say it in a way that you're comfortable with too? Right. Um, and what that means is, in addition to more people, more people that need to be engaged early in your messaging process. And I've made the stake of mistake in the past of bringing them in later. I've crafted the messaging, I've gone through review loops, and I think of legal and compliance as that final sign-off. But what happens is if there is something in your messaging that they have concerns about, hey, we think this is giving the wrong impression, someone could interpret this in the wrong way, that means you're going back to the drawing board and redoing things and potentially rolling back work that's already been done. So you can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

That's an excellent point, Hannah. Yeah, bring them in earlier. And I do love the point you're making about bringing in the SMEs, right? The subject matter experts, because you can pick a word or be recommending some phrasing or terminology that means something different, right? Like you don't know that it might actually have a different meaning or a different connotation in the context of this without that subject matter expert giving you that context and that framing. That's happened to me before, where you're like, well, what if we say this? Oh no, that means something different. We can't say that. So it's not like it's a compliance or legal issue, it just actually means something different. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

And and sometimes the inverse, where they recommend you use a certain word, but the reality is your customer does not even know what the heck that word means. Oh, and this happens a lot in healthcare where if you talk to the SMEs, they're rattling stuff off and you're trying to keep up and you're like, what does that mean? What does that mean? What does that mean? And I like to use as much as I've been in the space for a bit, I'm still learning because there's just so much to learn. I try to use ignorance as an advantage. Like, if I don't get it, the everyday person using this is not gonna get it either. And I've often made, I have made the mistake in the past of relying on explicitly the language I'm being told we should be using because it's from the experts. And then you roll it out and it doesn't resonate. People don't understand. They're actually confused, they're bringing in questions. And so you want that perspective, the context you're write is so important. They have a lot of the context that you may not have as a product marketer, but your job is to question everything and make sure at the end of the day, your messaging is in the words of your customer. How do they speak? How do they circulate things? When I say something to them, are they going to understand? Is it gonna click? Is it gonna resonate? And it's your job to sometimes be the interpreter there between the SME and your customer because the SME may not speak in the language of your customer. They're gonna speak in the language of the product, of the industry, of the space. And again, if for me, my end user and customers, often just everyday people like you and I, they're not healthcare experts. They don't know all the language. They just know I need to go to the doctor, how much does it cost? Yes, how do I access XYZ? And so sometimes you need to be the interpreter as you're building that messaging.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

I think the interpreter term is a really great one, really appropriate for this. Um I know we have other questions that get to. Um the the other thing we talked about in our prep call is the fact that now everybody can very easily generate content um thanks to AI. I mean, they could before, but now they can do it fast and at scale. And how does that factor in like because there's there's a police, I I don't I hate to call it policing, but you there's a a need to monitor the content that is being put out, right? And and so it's one thing if you, as the product marketer or even whoever's in charge of content has control over what you have control over, but what happens in the wild? What's your experience? How does that look in reality?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

I will admit this is something that I definitely hope it maybe in some cases literally has kept me up at night. Um I feel a very strong sense of ownership over my messaging. And I I think that's one of the number one jobs of the product marketer is to make sure that it's activated consistently across all your channels and the people that are using it. And so while I don't want to be police, I definitely don't want it to be the wild, wild west where everyone can kind of do what they want. Um, so I at first like I have to start by remembering like who is using or not using my messaging, you know, your marketing team, your sales team, customer success product, hopefully your leadership team as well. Like, don't forget them. Um, at any moment, they could be talking to a prospect, an existing customer, they could be talking to an investor, even like a friend or family member who's like, so tell me about your company. What are they saying? What are they saying about your product? Um, yeah. I do think a couple of things are helpful here. Like bringing people into your messaging development is something I am really passionate about. Um, why? Because it builds a strong sense of contribution and ownership from other folks in your messaging. And maybe I should take the word your out of it. It shouldn't be my messaging, it should be our messaging. Their fingerprint should be on it. If it's so, they're more likely to use it. Um they're using it and they're using it in the real world and they're thinking of it as helpful messaging, not just some fluff that someone in product marketing created where it's like, this is your messaging, but this is how I say it. Right. Yeah. That doesn't mean you bring every single person, but maybe pick a couple folks from these different teams to represent their team. Like, let's test this out. How does this feel like in real life? Um, and bring them in as you're building it out, just like you are with compliance and legal, so that you're you're building that sense of like ownership over the messaging, which means they're more likely to use it rather than just it's true, developing something. Yeah, once it's launched, create that feedback loop, right? Because sometimes, I mean, you can iterate on your messaging all you want. But I always like to say that you just got to get it out there, like in real life and see what the reactions are, but verbally, even non-verbally, like in a meeting. What is the prospect like responding? What's their facial cues? Um, you know, you can get some of that from your eyes and ears as people. If you have tools that are recording calls that you can ingest data from, you can monitor it that way. Um, so bringing them in early really helps. Um, and then I also am a big believer in having a consistent source of truth when it comes to your messaging. Oftentimes, in situations where I'm seeing the messaging isn't used consistently, it's because people frankly just don't know what the right messaging is. So they just build their own. Um, whether it's like a messaging one sheet that you have published and you distribute it internally, whatever the format of it is, you need to have a single source of truth that you're updating in real time that's evergreen, that people can reference. Otherwise, people will go and create their own. And if they are creating content, at least they're pulling, they're hopefully pulling from that that messaging guidelines.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

And they have very clear guidelines in that document about the do's don'ts and the why, right? Like, okay, and the why why you have to use this specific language, right? And and avoid this. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

And then as as you going back to the feedback loop, you know, uh once you've rolled that out, you use all your channels, survey teammates. How is the messaging landing? What's clicking, what's not? What are people asking about? What are people not asking about? Take that feedback back, keep working on that messaging. I think a lot of times we put so much work into building it and then it's done, and we're like, it's done. I don't have to worry about this anymore. But you do, you need to be continuously monitoring it. Messaging needs to be real and things, market context changes, customer needs change, competitor dynamics change, your messaging needs to evolve too. And so making sure that you keep coming back to that source of truth and updating it as a bit.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

And I did not bribe for the record, I did not bribe Hannah into teeing this up, but you know, that's what Troop is here to do is not only be the hub where your messaging guide lives, so everyone knows what to reference, but it's also constantly checking for alignment against what is being sent out, what is being said in the calls, how well is that aligned to your source of truth? And then also looking at even more what is the impact on pipeline. So I guess, you know, as as content goes out there and conversations happen, when things do start to go out of compliance, Hannah, what happens generally? What does that look like if you catch something and or you hear, see something, or like it obviously has to get reined in pretty quickly, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Yeah, I mean, if it's if it's out of compliance where you're saying something like you're very explicitly not should be saying. So in my earlier example, maybe I was like, nope, I don't want to listen to you, team. I'm gonna tell everyone that if you invest this brokerage account, you're gonna be wealthy in a year. Um there are lots of potential ramifications. It could be something as small as a customer calling the support team and saying, wait, what? Is this true? It could be, in my case, I'm in a B2B2C world. It could be that end customer escalating that up, escalating something up to their internal team, who's our economic buyer, and saying, hey, wait, this is is this true? And then they escalate it up to their customer success manager. That customer success manager escalates it up to our team. Um hopefully, I mean, there's probably some situations I haven't seen this personally, but I'm sure there's companies out there that have probably said things and gotten sued later.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Um there's all sorts of ramifications that could come out of it large, small, medium. But at the end of the day, I don't want any of them to happen. I don't want to make promises. We can't keep. I don't want to sort of imply things that aren't true. Um, it it at the end of the day, it will erode your credibility and trust in your product and your brand. And that that has a huge like trickle stream effect, whatever you want to call it. And so lots of potential ramifications. It again, it goes back to why you need to be engaging folks who can help think of those ramifications long in advance of you activating your messaging for any real audience.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah, that's great. We talked about the persona, the cycle or the the the food chain of personas here in B2B to C. I don't really know how else to characterize it other than a food chain.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

You know, my work. Um it's a chain, a chain.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

It is, it's a chain. So in B to B so in a B2B to C situation, if you're selling if your customer that you're making revenue off of is a business. So that's the B2B piece, but that business is then selling their service to the consumer. I'm curious your take of how you think about the hierarchy of messaging and how you prioritize the messaging, because uh my experience has been that you're messaging to the business that you're trying to sell to, but you also have to thaw at the same time, like simultaneously, think about it from the end consumer's perspective too. So there's this sort of art that goes into this. Like, how how do you approach this, Hannah? Like, how much weight do you put on the consumer's lens, which is the ultimate end user of this food chain, um, versus the business's perspective? What's how do you find the balance that you want to strike?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

It's a really good question. Um, at the end of the day, your B2B, your buyer audience is the one that's deciding whether they're going to purchase your product, whether they're going to renew and keep working with it. And so I think oftentimes in these B2B2C worlds, there is a probably more emphasis placed on the B2B audience, and product marketers often spend more of their time focused on what's the right messaging and ways to persuade this audience that our product is the right fit for them. And then as we onboard them and they're a customer, how do we retain them?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

I think that's wrong to put too much emphasis there. I think there's a ton of sort of influence that your end users have. Although you may not see it right away over time as they're using your product, if they're unhappy, they're going to let those people know. If I'm working in the benefit space and I'm we're selling a product to an employer audience who's then offering it to their employees as part of their benefits package, if people hate their benefits, they're going to tell their HR team, right? Like they're going to do an annual survey and they're going to say, This sucks. I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Get this other thing. And so making sure that that end user audience is really happy and satisfied with the product is equally important. And I try to balance both. I know that we need to make a promise to the economic buyer about how it's going to this product is going to add value and solve a problem for them and for the end user who's their, in this case, employee audience. And so what has to be true is your core value prop needs to stay the same. And I start there before I work on the messaging, like what is the value proposition? And how can it be true between both audiences who have very different problems, jobs to be solved, motivations, barriers, all of that. So I need to define like what's universal and then what's unique. And then I actually create messaging for each audience. So I don't think there's like a one size fits all messaging that's going to work because again, totally different worlds, how they're thinking about the product is different. So for the B2B audience, my messaging is often communicating around ROI, administrative ease. Hey, if you offer this, I can help improve these types of outcomes for your workforce. And here's why that matters for the consumer audience. The messaging is often focused around, you know, ease of use and the utility and the personal benefits to you as a human rather than the benefits to the business, because obviously they don't care about the business in that sense. Um, so you need to have, I think, two layers of messaging. Um, your value proposition needs to be overarching and true among both, but I actually create like a messaging guide for the B2B side. Okay. And then for the consumer side, and then the teams that are creating content and marketing campaigns for each of those audiences, they're referencing the right source of truth. And that way we have messaging that's relevant for the people that we're talking to, rather than saying, like, well, let's just build one and hope it like is all encompassing and work for everyone because it's not going to.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

That's a that's excellent advice. Hannah, as you're describing that, it's making me think, oh my gosh, these are more personas that I have to understand, right? And if you're a solo PMM, oh my gosh. But I mean, it's hard enough to understand the personas just on the B2B side of the of the equation, but now you have to also really understand what matters to the consumer, the ultimate consumer at the end of this cycle as well. How like that feels really challenging in terms of just getting to know all these personas. You're like, yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

It definitely keeps you busy. Um, I actually really like it. Like, I grew up in B2B, I love B2C. Um I don't know that I would want to like commit fully to B2C. I love that I get to do both, um, not just from a messaging perspective, but even how we go to market, how we think about marketing strategies, like there's the B2B side and then there's the B2C side, and you kind of get to do both.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Um, it does stretch you pretty far. Um, but I think it allows you to also be really creative and thinking about how do you really talk to humans as humans. I think oftentimes when we're talking to B2B audiences, they are very much human, but they're also putting their own like business rule lens on when they're thinking about your product. And so I think there's just honestly more room for creativity and how you're thinking about talking to your consumer audience. Um, and it forces you to think about your product in different ways too. And and honestly, I think it keeps me really grounded as a product marketer because I'm always grounded in the human side of it. And how how do people like me experience this? How do people like my family members experience this? What do they care about? How do I help them along the way through this product and messaging it? And so I really enjoy that like human-focused grounding there, which I think in B2B is important to you. I think it's a little harder to get to because again, you're really focused on the whole, you know, business value and all of that rather than the human value.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, well put, Hannah. And, you know, speaking of the human connection, you are, you know, we teased at the top that you're involved with the product marketing alliance as an ambassador. How did you get involved in that? And what what what do you get out of it in terms of relationships that you're meeting with the people in the alliance?

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Product Marketing Alliance has been a big part of my career journey. I joined when I first started in product marketing. I didn't know what I didn't know. I wanted to find and build a community of people and just soak in as much knowledge as I could that I could apply in my day-to-day. Uh, so I joined, I quickly immersed myself in the community, got to know people, soaked in all those great resources they have. Um, along the way, the opportunity came to really lean in more as an ambassador and help other product marketers in their career paths too. And so I've been doing that for the last several years, attending events online and in person, contributing information. Um, they recently, and I think in the fall, launched a mentoring program through Mentor Loop that I've been a part of too. Um, it's been really huge in helping me be better at my craft. But then also as I'm learning, giving back to other people and sharing things in real time. And product marketers are so hungry for that. They don't just want the concepts, they want the real examples, right? Like, walk me through this. How did you approach it? Yeah. And I think a lot of that has been brought about through PMA. Like they're really trying to help facilitate that. And it's the people that are part of the community that I think are making it happen. And the people, the network, the community. That's been my biggest, I think, takeaway from my experience with PMA is just having that community that I can tap into and be a part of is just incredibly fulfilling. And more recently, I was a solo PMM. I you're solo, but you're not. Like you need that community of fellow people in your, you know, in your corner. And I think PMA has been a big part of helping make that happen.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Oh, that's really cool. I'm glad to hear that. And I know Troop is super excited to be really involved with PMA this year and a bunch of different events and programs. So, and to meet fellow professionals like you that we can we can also learn from as well as we develop our product and and offering. So, Hannah, really appreciate you taking the time today. This has been a great conversation. Uh, wish you luck with your B2B2C in a regulatory climate. Um, and uh yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Thank you, Jordan.